Between the Lines: YA is NOT a Genre

February 9, 2019

is a series of posts focused on better understanding books, trends in writing, and the labels associated with these.


 

Friends. There’s something I’ve just got to rant about for a hot second. It’s something you’ve probably all heard me mention about 1.5 billion times: Young Adult is not a genre. Young adult is a category; a readership.

A category in literature describes the target audience, expectations, general themes threaded throughout the books, and how those themes and relates issues are dealt with. A category identified the intended readership age. In the case of young adult, typically from 12 to 18.

But the tricky thing with YA is that it isn’t easy to nail down. Michael Cart, author and expert in children’s and young adult literature, explains in a 2008 Young Adult Library Services Association (YALSA) whitepaper,

The term “young adult literature” is inherently amorphus, for its constituent terms “young adult” and “literature” are dynamic, changing as culture and society — which provide their context — change.

What classifies a book as “young adult” is debated between different literary associations. Some call out the age of the protagonists and coming of age plots, others how to deal with challenging issues and more mature relationships, and even others point out the inclusion of sex and swearing. No matter the finer points, all associations agree that readership is somewhere between 12-18+.

This doesn’t mean to say that one age group can’t read books geared towards another age group. In the United Kingdom, they printed an “adult version” of Harry Potter (remember, this was before eBooks, my friends) so adults would feel more comfortable reading Harry Potter on the Tube. Instead of the bright block color covers, these are black with delicate filigree. Adults are just as likely to pick up young adult literature as the intended readership. 

This also means that young adult as a category spans the entire spectrum of genres. We see everything from mystery to non-fiction, literary fiction to horror, and romance to science fiction. Subgenres abound in young adult, too. Paranormal romance, urban fantasy– if you can find a genre, I bet there is a young adult book there.

In many ways, this makes the category young adult a marketing angle. Young adult literature has become so popular lately that it isn’t surprising to see people of all ages and experiences picking it up. More and more young adult books are being optioned for films and television shows than ever before. But the strong marketing power means that it’s easier than ever to confuse readership as well.

A recent article by Mya Nunnally via BookRiot, There’s a Weird, Sexist Problem in Fantasy that We Need to Talk About, points out how female fantasy authors works are often getting lumped into the young adult category. This has to do with many factors including marketing, cover art, and how social media viral posting works. While I see miscategorizing most often in fantasy, it happens with other genres too.

A big miscommunicator in my life for category AND genre is Goodreads. The Genres listed on the right-hand side of a book’s page are just the top metadata tags other users have applied to the book in question. This is crowd-sourcing; there are no official literary experts speaking up alone here. And this is how I end up confused more often than not about a book’s category.

Until very recently, the young adult category was the only way to identify a readership group between children’s and adult. Now we have the additional and distinctive categories of middle grade, tween, and even new adult popping up to help focus readership even further. New adult is a category which focuses on college-age readers. Therefore, sex is overt and often a central focus. Can you imagine expecting a book for a 12-18-year-old and reading… well, potentially a book with softcore erotica in it? That’s what’s happened with A Court of Thorns and Roses FAR too often. As you can see, it’s identified as BOTH young adult and new adult on Goodreads.

Which brings me to a key frustration. Goodreads’ crowd-sourcing Genre tags, as well as bookstores with shelf labels for “Non-Fiction” next to “Young Adult”, are the reason I believe people started to get confused about YA being a genre. When you see young adult next to fantasy or fiction, your subconscious mind recognizes, “Oh, hey. This must be a genre!” Bring the internet into the equation and it makes even more sense. People all over the internet keep writing about YA as a genre. And no one is correcting this. One of the tragic things about the internet is its ability to perpetuate misinformation until the misinformation is practically correct.

So, yeah. I’m frustrated. I’m irritated. And I am tired of young adult getting a bad rap for purely existing. But, honestly, that’s a completely different ranty post. For now, help me out and boost the signal: Young adult isn’t a genre. It’s a category; a readership. And should be respected as such. 


What do you think?

  • Do you agree that young adult is a category/readership and NOT a genre? Why or why not?
  • Can you give some examples of misidentified young adult books? Or times when young adult was identified as a genre and it frustrated you? What about this was frustrating?
  • What are your biggest pet peeves related to literature?

100 Comments

  • Kim @ Traveling in Books February 10, 2019 at 12:38 am

    I agree. YA is not a genre, it’s an age category. That descriptor “YA” might indicate what sorts of complexity and themes you might find, but it doesn’t describe the genre (with that being said, I categorize my own reads as ‘YA Fantasy’ and ‘Adult Fantasy’, etc.). When people describe books like ACOTAR as YA simply because they’re by a woman, about women, or about young women, they indicate that these books are for younger readers when they certainly are not (and it makes me wonder, since Maas is now writing an ‘Adult Fantasy Series’, if she’s moving from softcore to straight-up fantasy erotica?). And it seems to be a bigger problem with books directed toward girls. I have no issues finding age-appropriate books for my teenaged nephew, but will definitely have to pay attention to reviews for YA books when my niece hits her teens in a few short years.

    The misnomer generally doesn’t bother me, though, except for examples like this: on her channel Kalanadi, BookTuber Rachel stated in her ‘Unpopular Opinions Tag’ video stated that she generally did not read YA, as it is a demographic not a genre, and she is no longer in that demographic. Cue the expected ‘outrage’ and claims that Rachel was pretentious and demeaning for stating that she, as a woman in her late 20s, wasn’t particularly interested in reading books meant for teenagers. That irritates me because, if you watch more than that one video of Rachel’s, you’ll see that she does, in fact, read a wide range of books, including Middle-Grade and some YA (just not the hyped novels). Those snap judgments of ‘you’re pretentious for not reading YA, and I’m offended!’ get on my nerves faster than just about any other bookish pet peeve.

    • Grab the Lapels February 10, 2019 at 10:55 am

      I’m pretty sure at some point (it may even be on my FAQ page?) I’ve lumped YA in with genres, which makes it look like I think it’s a genre. If I say I don’t read Christian fiction, cook books, and YA, it sounds like I think YA is a genre. It’s actually not true–since I started my quest to find books in which fat women and girls are represented with dignity and not forced to diet or date their way to happiness, I’ve been up to my ears in YA. This is a generalization based solely on observation, but it seems that a lot of YA authors are in their late 20s, meaning they are more “woke” than previous generations. They know the importance of inclusion and underrepresented stories. However, the main thing that turns my off from YA, aside from all the tropes I described in a recent post, is that the sentence structure is so simplistic. I noticed the same thing especially in Arrows of the Queen, but because Heralds don’t focus on having crushes and thwarting their parents, the simplicity of the writing didn’t bother me as much. I know there are many definitions of YA, but here’s how I see it: the main character is a teen, the sentences are more simplistic, and things work out in the end because young people need reassured that that’s true. I’ve read some books that I’d call YA that do have discussions about sex or reference people having sex, such as Puddin’ and Dumplin’, both by Julie Murphy, and Fat Angie by E.E. Charleton-Trujillo. I actually think conversations about sex are important in YA novels. When I was a teen it seemed like ERRRYBODY was having sex. However, I’ve since learned that the more a teen things his/her peers are doing something, the more likely they are to do it. There are studies about this in connection with sex, drinking, and drugs. I want to read more about whether or not to “do it,” and what all the scary steps are leading up to “doing it” and what happens after teens have “done it.” (I’m using so many quotes because most teens don’t actually say “have sex” in the books I’ve read).

      I AM disappointed that so many people hated on that blogger who doesn’t want to read YA. As I mentioned, I have a whole post about why I don’t read YA, and I was surprised by how many people agreed with my reasons. Perhaps the Booktuber didn’t lay out convincing reasons? Or maybe she has a much larger readership than I do, leaving room for more varied opinions. But, to be fair, many of my followers are hard-core YA fans and readers. It sounds elitist to even mention it, but I’ll add that I have two graduate degrees in fiction writing, I’ve been married for 10 years, I’ve been working my ass off for 16 years. . .it’s possibly that my brain is in a different kind of “adult” mode than people in their 20s who still read YA and get angry when someone says books with a target audience of teens isn’t for them. Just the other day I was talking to someone about how I know a couple of really nice people–he’s 27, she’s 28–who I would SWEAR were a solid 10 years younger than they are. Both still live at home and work what are essentially summer jobs. I think the economy and cost of higher education has changed the maturation rate of people in a way that makes all of us argumentative because we don’t get each other anymore.

      • Kim @ Traveling in Books February 10, 2019 at 11:43 am

        In Rachel’s video, I think her negative commentors’ knee-jerk reactions were just a sign of what social media allows for- knee-jerk reactions that don’t require thought to make but make you feel like you then have to stand by that instinctive response. Rachel did not say that YA was bad or that people who read it are bad, just that she wasn’t interested in reading it herself. She was not wrong in her assessment that she has outgrown YA. As someone in her late 20s with a graduate degree I would argue that, yes, she has outgrown books meant for 12-18-year-olds. Does that mean she (or we) can’t enjoy one from time to time? Nope. It just means that the bulk of what she reads is meant for adults.

        And speaking of BookTubers and YA… I happened across one of Steve Donoghue’s many mail haul videos where he received three YA books. He talked about how YA tends to lack nuance (simple sentence structure, black and white morality, etc), and said it was a feature of YA, not a bug. And I think he has a point. Books meant for 12-18-year-olds should be a little simpler than adult books, because teens are still developing critical thinking and analyzing skills. Egro, YA books are going to be simpler. I think we run into trouble, though, when adults in their 20s, 30s, 40s, will read nothing but YA because it’s easy and shut themselves off to books that challenge them to think more deeply.

        • Grab the Lapels February 10, 2019 at 12:00 pm

          Ah, I like that! It’s not a bug. And I agree. Just because it’s not for me doesn’t mean I’m pretentious or am failing to read good stories. I’ve been a bit braver lately when I talk about this because there is so much teeth-gnashing in the YA book blogger community.

          • Kim @ Traveling in Books February 10, 2019 at 12:14 pm

            Yay bravery! I need to sit down and talk about it, too. The more the teeth-gnashing is normalized, the worse it gets. I’ve often found myself wanting to speak up about our need to think rationally about YA and reading preferences, but it feels like I’d be fighting an uphill battle. But some things have popped up in the book community lately that bother the heck out of me. Guess I’d better sharpen my metaphorical sword and get to it…

            • Grab the Lapels February 10, 2019 at 3:28 pm

              Of course a sword is your weapon of choice; you’ve been reading some stabbity novels!

              • Kim @ Traveling in Books February 10, 2019 at 8:23 pm

                *lol* I suppose I have, given that my weapon of choice in the real world would be a bow and arrow!

                • Grab the Lapels February 11, 2019 at 5:19 pm

                  I’m at work and pretty tired, and so my first choice of weapon (I kid you not) that popped into my head was just spitting gum at people.

                  • Kim @ Traveling in Books February 11, 2019 at 5:22 pm

                    Hahaha! I have pens and scissors to hand, so I guess my current weapons are still kinda stabby!

                    • Grab the Lapels February 11, 2019 at 7:13 pm

                      I’m dyin’

                    • Jackie B February 12, 2019 at 11:26 pm

                      Stabbity weapons are the best outside of real life. This is like a nerdy version of Clue:
                      Kim, on the blog, with the pen and scissors!

                    • Kim @ Traveling in Books February 12, 2019 at 11:40 pm

                      That’s about the shape of it!

                  • Jackie B February 12, 2019 at 11:25 pm

                    Which is one of the reasons you’re so wonderful. Whatever comes to mind? That’s a weapon. In my case? I’m throwing used tea bags at them. XD

                    • Grab the Lapels February 14, 2019 at 11:53 am

                      Aw, and that horribly splat they would make, lol.

            • Jackie B February 12, 2019 at 11:23 pm

              What are the other things which have been popping up in the book world which make you gnash your teeth? I am super curious!

              • Kim @ Traveling in Books February 12, 2019 at 11:39 pm

                What can I think of right now? Let’s see… People who get outraged when a white author writes only white characters, and when the author writes a PoC or LGBT character the same people are outraged because ‘they didn’t do it right’ or ‘they shouldn’t tell someone else’s story’. The author can’t win in that situation.

                Community censorship really ticks me off. When BookTwitter or BookTube mobs an author or a reviewer for not writing something that aligns perfectly with ‘the community views’, as though it’s the author’s responsibility to write what a particular community wants. But that’s not the author’s job. The author’s job is to be true to his/her story, not follow the community’s desires.

                Or, when people assume that, because a character in a book says/does something that’s not ‘woke’ enough or whatever, then the author must be a terrible person. It’s like people don’t realize that a fiction writer’s job is to make things up, including character POVs that don’t necessarily align with their own views.

                Ugh. I could go on, but I probably shouldn’t get myself too riled up before bed.

                • Jackie B February 12, 2019 at 11:47 pm

                  Oh man. These are all AMAZING. And I completely agree with you that these are frustrating and enfuriating. I really struggle with what communities at large put on authors. a lot of debut authors don’t survive the criticism, sadly.

                  I’d love to read about this in greater detail. You know, not now. Because you need to calm down before going to bed. XD But seroiusly, if you wrote a post just ranting about all the things which frustrate you about the bookish community or books or whatever, I’d devour it.

                  • Kim @ Traveling in Books February 12, 2019 at 11:51 pm

                    I will have to start drafting a post soon, then, if only to get a few things off my chest. It’s all so frustrating and disheartening to encounter, even in my own small corner of the internet. I can’t imagine what it’s like for authors– especially new and young authors– to be so criticized.

                    • Jackie B February 18, 2019 at 9:44 am

                      Exactly. I’ve started to see a lot of frustration in social media outlets recently regarding tagging authors in critical reviews. It’s overwhelming and hurtful, particularly when someone is ripping apart a book for the sake of building views on their blog/Bookstagram/BookTube page. It’s heartbreaking.

                    • Kim @ Traveling in Books February 18, 2019 at 12:14 pm

                      I don’t understand why people tag authors in any reviews, honestly. As though authors have nothing better to do than check out an endless stream of tags because a bunch of random people want their attention.

                      Negative reviews are going to be part of life for anyone putting their work in public, but there’s no need to draw an author’s attention to your blog (or BookTube channel or Bookstagram or whatever).

                      What makes me angry is when people who haven’t read a book jump on a bandwagon because one or two people think they might have gotten a white of racism or misogyny, and then villify an author over a rumor. Mobs do not make for rational discussions of anything.

                    • Kim @ Traveling in Books February 18, 2019 at 12:16 pm

                      That should have been “a whiff of racism or misogyny”. Darned autocorrect…

                    • Jackie B February 19, 2019 at 9:06 am

                      Hahaha. I knew what you meant, shockingly. Actually, I didn’t even notice until you pointed it out!

                      I rarely correct my comments when autocorrect makes mistakes on my behalf. I assume people get it. 😉 But corrections need to happen more often than I personally believe they should. Siri obviously has a smaller vocabulary than I do.

                    • Kim @ Traveling in Books February 19, 2019 at 9:16 am

                      My autocorrect thinks it knows better than I do. It’s always trying to ‘correct’ were to we’re and stuff like that. So annoying…

                    • Jackie B February 19, 2019 at 9:04 am

                      And authors are people with lives and jobs and all that. If they want to seek out your reviews they understand how to do so. I get frustrated with tagging in social media because it means someone is pushing information to me I don’t necessarily want. There is enough stimulation in my life. Please don’t force your preferences onto me.

                      Social media mobs are the MOST frustrating, you are correct, Kim! I get so disheartened when I see it happening — in books or otherwise. I rarely use Twitter or Facebook (other than the automated posts from WP to them) because I find them toxic. I don’t understand why people think it’s okay to jump into a fight they don’t understand or know nothing about. 🙁

                    • Kim @ Traveling in Books February 19, 2019 at 9:15 am

                      I use Facebook less and less these days, and I never got onto Twitter. I’m glad now I never did. As useful as it can be, it seems like people just use it to jump onto bandwagons and bully people. It’s awful, and I don’t understand why they do it.

                    • Jackie B February 26, 2019 at 5:08 pm

                      I assume it’s the feeling of power. I’m consistently shocked at how many people get off on belittling others. It’s disgusting. I struggle so much with watching it happen… I’ve just started to avoid social media in general. In blogs I trust. <3

      • Jackie B February 10, 2019 at 12:10 pm

        You weren’t kidding that you wrote me a novella! XD You are wonderful.

        It’s not your fault if people make assumptions about the definition of a word (or, in this case, acronym) based on the grammar of your sentence. You are trusting that those reading this will be educated enough to understand. I don’t believe you’re perpetuating it intentionally. Forgive. 😉

        But you’re right, YA authors tend to be more “woke”. I actually love it when YA books cover sex and drugs. Judy Blume’s books, such as Forever… and Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret. taught a whole generation of women about safe sex, emotional security, exploring your body, and that menstruation is normal and acceptable. YA books are something kids will escape to for advice as they are of the age where asking their parents isn’t cool any longer. I’m glad there are safe spaces for them to explore these ideas and try to understand them before experiencing them on their own. In a world where information is so easy to access, you think understanding our own bodies and the effects things have on them, emotionally or physically, would be easier to find…

        I personally don’t think it matters whether or not Kalanadi/Rachel or anyone else in the world provides convincing reasons why they don’t read a genre. Does it matter? We should respect what people want or don’t want to read — let them have their opinions! If you don’t understand, ask questions. If you’re passionate about something, that’s awesome! But it doesn’t give you the right to force your opinion on anyone else. I swear, the internet exists sometimes just to stir up controversy.

        I feel like every year or so, some major news organization publishes a paper on why you should or shouldn’t read YA. It’s always one or the other, and it’s always controversial. I guess controversy makes for good engagement online, but… ugh. It just creates chaos. There will always be people on both sides of the arugment. Just let it be!

        • Grab the Lapels February 10, 2019 at 3:27 pm

          I think some part of my brain has convinced me that if people read “harder” books they will be more conscious of rhetoric in the news. That’s a dream my brain came up with, but in the United States in 2019, I want EVERYONE to understand how rhetoric works. Honestly, I’m not sure how fiction would help with that unless people were in book clubs that discussed the way characters try to convince each other of X, Y, and Z. OMG. RHETORIC BOOK CLUB. I WANT TO DO THIS THING.

          • Jackie B February 14, 2019 at 3:06 pm

            As in you assume the identify of a character and convince each other of these ideas? Or as the reader, you are convincing other readers of things related to this books? I’m totally down for rhetoric book club. It sounds a bit like an improve class!

            • Grab the Lapels February 14, 2019 at 10:43 pm

              I mean like if Danny wants to convince Susie to go to the prom, how is he going to sell the idea to her. Even trying to get someone to go on a date with you requires rhetoric, and the way you use it garners different results. So, I feel like if readers chose books with more complex situations that going to the prom, they would see better examples of how rhetoric works. A book club could pull apart the arguments made in the book they read that month.

              • Jackie B February 18, 2019 at 10:47 am

                Okay. I’m picking up what you’re putting down., but I will admit it’s only sorta fuzzy in my head. Conceptually, I love this. Execution is where I’m floundering. Let me ponder this some more — I might have questions for you about this in the future.

      • Evelina @ AvalinahsBooks February 13, 2019 at 3:07 am

        What a great comment. I also don’t love YA all that much both because of the writing style, and also because I don’t want go back to my own teens mentally and think about them. They sucked. And I want them to stay in the past! Reading about them just makes me think of everything I felt bad about at that time (many of those things have followed me into adulthood.) Plus… most YA is written about American people. Life was so wildly different here in my teens that I just can’t relate to A LOT of the things anyway.

        Nobody seems to judge me too much about not loving YA though. Although you could say that bloggers who don’t read YA or fantasy (I don’t read both xD) are much less popular. But I’m not going to pick up something I don’t want to read to just be popular.

        • Grab the Lapels February 14, 2019 at 11:56 am

          In what ways are American teens different from what you experienced? I’m so curious!

          • Evelina @ AvalinahsBooks February 18, 2019 at 1:08 am

            Well, over here the teens are the rich ones, because they have parents that will spare no expense – over there I hear the teens usually have less money than a grown up. Also, when I was growing up, my country had just won its independence fight and my country was sort of really poor. And technology took a while catching up. We didn’t have much stuff, so a lot of the affluence in contemporary YAs just makes my skin crawl. Other than that, there are the social differences… here the teens are not allowed to drive so they have much less freedom. We don’t have the same kinds of school activities or even a similar school system. And I don’t even know… I bet the teens now experience different teenage years that I did because the country is more affluent. In my time things were different. It’s hard to put my finger on it, but reading contemporary YA for me is such a removed-from-reality experience for me the way I remember my teens that I get incredibly bored.

            • Grab the Lapels February 18, 2019 at 11:45 am

              The high school experience can vary wildly in the United States depending on how much money your area has. People pay taxes, which support a school district. Therefore, a school in an inner city is less likely to have new books, good buildings, or enough teachers than a place in the suburbs. My high school was good, but then a casino was built in my city. Casinos must pay a certain percentage of the money that take in each year, which is a LOT. We ended up getting a new building, many of our teachers had been college professors, and there were so many after school clubs: everything from drama to art club to ping pong club to knitting. I know that I was fortunate, and I appreciate the money my school had immensely. Teens really don’t have a lot of money here, but parents, I think, get confused about what a teen NEEDS vs. what they want. For instance, I had a cell phone that was so big it didn’t fit in my purse when I was in high school. I only got it after I started driving in case i was in an accident. I know kids who are about 10 years old who have smart phones for “safety.” What has changed that makes kids so unsafe today compared to when I was ten in 1995?

              • Evelina @ AvalinahsBooks February 18, 2019 at 2:03 pm

                See, that’s what’s different! Most schools here are the same, and I even mean they basically have the same building layout, because back in the Soviet days there was ONE project for ALL schools 😀 I could enter 70% of the country’s schools and know where to go to find the main hubs – bathrooms, the cafeteria, the main hall, the gym. Chances are I would easily find the physics room, the chemistry room and the biology room as well. That’s a thing that’s already wildly different. (Also we have no lockers and everyone has the same classes, nobody chooses their subjects.) There are hardly any clubs – those are outside of schools, almost always private and you have to pay for them. There are some school clubs but like… Maybe basketball and ping pong, and that’s that. I knew nobody who even went to schools clubs apart from basketball. We also have no such thing as cheerleaders. So there are just so many points of my teenage years that were so different, and that makes reading YA very unrelatable for me. Oh, and I think kids only have phone for safety because our generation as parents don’t feel safe without cellphones anymore 😀 (I certainly don’t.) I shudder when my boyfriend forgets his phone and goes to the store. What if something happens?? I think that’s why parents buy kids phones for safety. I only got my first phone at like 16.. but that was pretty normal, because they only appeared around the time I was 10 and became popular when I was maybe 13! So it’s hard to compare. We live in very different times now.

                • Grab the Lapels February 18, 2019 at 10:54 pm

                  What do you do when you forget your phone? You like like a 90s kid: if you lose someone in the store, you go back to the parking lot and stand by the car. If you want someone to come find you, you go to the help desk and have them page your person and announce it over the loudspeaker. Your car gets a flat? Walk to the nearest cool-looking house and ask to use the phone. Okay, all of this sounds unsafe, lol. I didn’t realize all the schools have the same development plan. That blows my mind, A! Then again, you’ll never pee your pants if you get lost, and the jocks won’t take over your school’s funding because football is, like, soooo important to the heart of the community.

                  • Evelina @ AvalinahsBooks February 24, 2019 at 12:52 pm

                    Hahaha yes, the jocks thing doesn’t really exist here 😀 also, we never had pagers! We only had mobile phones, because those both appeared at the same time here, and you could already send messages, so pagers didn’t sell at all, because they looked like a little more of the same, but with less functionality (you couldn’t call). So nobody bought them! And I actually don’t remember what we did if we got lost… But I was never allowed to go anywhere alone at all. However, I know there used to be kids who’d get sent to the grocery store for food at age 6 with a shopping list (absolutely unheard of now), and there were always kids with their house key hanging by a shoelace on their neck xD (bet you had those too though.)

                    • Grab the Lapels February 24, 2019 at 3:59 pm

                      Ah! Latchkey kids! That’s what those kids with the shoelace and key are called here 🙂

                    • Evelina @ AvalinahsBooks February 25, 2019 at 1:21 am

                      Well there we go, we found something in common in our cultures xD

        • Jackie B February 15, 2019 at 3:26 pm

          I wonder why most YA is written about Americans. Are most YA authors American? I have definitely seen a LOT of American and Australian authors on the YA circuits, but I don’t often pay attention to an author’s country of origin.

          I love that you just read whatever you want to read, Evelina. Keep it up. 🙂 I know there are other bloggers other there reading what you read! Have you found them? If so, share! I’d love to find bloggers who don’t read YA and/or fantasy like you. <3

          • Evelina @ AvalinahsBooks February 15, 2019 at 4:04 pm

            I think they’re mostly Americans. There are a lot of British authors too, but that’s still Westernized culture. I think it’s to do with the fact that it’s published in English and not much stuff gets translated INTO English. There are so many writing in English that nobody cares to. Besides… did you know that, for example, when we get an order in our Etsy shop with no country listed it’s 100% going to be from America? Americans think they’re the only country xD They legit never bother to list the country. I’ve never met an American shopper who will list their country if they request an address change. Cause pff, why wouldn’t we know, right? Is it the only country, after all 😀 Even in Goodreads (did you ever notice?) – if the profile lists a state and no country, it’s America. Every other place has a country name. America is just “the world” and everything else is its province. In this light, do you think it’s weird that nobody translates into English and the biggest book market in the world is dominated by Americans? I wonder why they only write about America… except no, I don’t, it’s the same reason they never list their country 😀 because nothing else exists to most Americans. And TBH, I doubt they’d even buy books about non-americans. I mean then majorities. And the majorities are what sells and drives the market. So here we are. Jeez, I hope this comment doesn’t sound too passive aggressive 😀 😀 oh, and yeah, there are bloggers who read random stuff like I do… but only like a few xD xD

            • Jackie B February 18, 2019 at 3:12 pm

              Honestly, this comment isn’t passive aggressive. It’s just straight up aggressive — and in all the right ways!

              I wish I could speak intelligently as to why and how any of these things are happening. As far as GR listing only City/State, I have always made the assumption it was because other than Georgia, all states names are exclusive to them — therefore, you don’t need that detail. It is assumed by listing the state. That said, I think it shouldn’t be assumed with address!

              Did you know, it wasn’t until I was 25 that I realized countries have telephone codes? I had no idea until international travel required me to consider calling out of the country. I had always made calls nationally. It’s really uncommon for most Americans to know people abroad. Hence the chaos in my country right now which is all about Nationalism. If you don’t know the other, you cannot identify with them. It’s frustrating.

              I need to dig more into understanding translations now. This intrigues me. Do you know of Lithuanian YA authors?

              • Evelina @ AvalinahsBooks February 24, 2019 at 1:01 pm

                Yes, but for GR, that reasoning should also go with “Vilnius”, because there’s no other Vilnius anywhere else. Except they list it as Lithuania. No, that’s not why – they just don’t list US as the country because their message is “you’re all guests in Goodreads, we actually made it for America.” That’s how it makes me feel, at least. I guess you’re right, America is just so big, it’s kind of its own little world. I wonder if people from other big countries feel like that? Although I would think only China would probably come close. Maybe India. In terms of populations, although maybe not size (don’t ask me, my geography is very bad xD) And no, Lithuanians don’t get translated. I don’t think they really write YA either. Only Ruta Sepetys, but she’s actually American, just of Lithuanian descent. There’s no need for Lithuanians to write YA. It would never sell. The market is full of translated English ones. There’s no way it could be bought in a country as small as this. Lithuanians just tend to write obscure literary stuff (that I can’t read, TBH). The only thing I can think of is Silva Rerum by Kristina Sabaliauskaite, but I’m 90% it hasn’t been translated to English yet.

                • Jackie B February 26, 2019 at 5:50 pm

                  I imagine India probably feels similarly, if only because they have so many languages between all their states. Perhaps, since they have so many different languages, they all feel loyalty to their state before the country as a whole? This is all speculation…

                  I love Ruta Sepetys work. The only other Lithuanian author I’ve heard of is Jurgis Kuncinas, as my sister read some of his works during a Post-Soviet Literature class during Uni.

                  Do you read much literature written by Lithuanians? I never see you review books which aren’t also published in English. I wonder if you just don’t write about them, like Melanie @ Grab the Lapels doesn’t write about the male authors she reads…

                  • Evelina @ AvalinahsBooks March 2, 2019 at 2:50 am

                    There are loads of Indian book bloggers, a lot of them are my friends too – so maybe we should just ask? But yeah, I’ve also wondered. Because a lot of them seem to also speak English a lot and very well, so I wonder how much they use that on a daily basis there too. And oh my god, Jurgis Kuncinas. If he’s the guy I’m thinking about, then he’s the one who made me roll my eyes at Lithuanian writers. Because he writes in a.. weird genre. He writes well, but his books are just so bizarre they don’t make any sense. Like I don’t mean plot wise – I mean it actually doesn’t even follow the laws of physics sometimes. To each his own, but I don’t understand why the majority of Lithuanian writers have to write something that the general public will NEVER understand..? And we actually used to read a lot of Lithuanian stuff for school, but almost nobody reads it for fun. I don’t read almost any because most stuff written by modern Lithuanian authors I find incredibly pretentious. And the old authors just write about how hard life was in the village for boors. And yeah, nothing gets published outside of the country, for similar reasons. They release a lot of books but I’m not sure who reads them. It’s all fluff. I wouldn’t waste my time.

                    • Jackie B March 13, 2019 at 12:05 pm

                      You have a valid point about asking the source. 😉 I hope I’ll remember to do this once my blogging life gets a bit back in order. I only really follow one Indian blogger (Susan Resh, obvs) but I know there are others I occasionally frequent. 🙂 They’re all so nice! I’m sure they’ll help clarify.

                      I feel similarly about older English authors, actually. The Classics rarely do it for me. Most of them are such “high art” that I feel like I’m trying to run through mud to read these books. I mean, yes, people understand these books… but are they fun to read? Not to me. I’ll stick with my graphic novels and speculative fiction. XD

                    • Evelina @ AvalinahsBooks March 13, 2019 at 12:11 pm

                      Well, there are exceptions! I love some classics (most Brontes with the exception of Wuthering Heights), Wilkie Collins.. I used to read a lot of classics before I could afford to buy ebooks xD they were free 😀

    • Jackie B February 10, 2019 at 11:46 am

      I never considered the YA problem to be a women’s problem, but you’re right. When I think of YA books by male authors, or with male protagonists, very few come to mind. Mostly John Green and David Levithan books; which I cannot imagine someone mistaking these for not being YA. But I cannot think of a single adult book written by or about a male which I have run into expecting YA… Fascinating!

      Ugh. I am with you on having to pay attention when seeking books for younger readers. Part of the problem I’ve noticed has to do with series. Even in Harry Potter the books become more mature later in the series. I don’t think there is anything wrong with this — I love it! But, the first Throne of Glass book was only mindly violent. It was definitely YA in feeling. But as the series progresses they definitely become proper adult.

      I felt that way about The Heralds of Valdemar. Arrows of the Queen felt almost middle grade. But by the time I finished Arrow’s Fall I knew I was 100% reading adult fantasy.

      I wonder if this has to do with publishing companies… In my experience, this happens most often for first time female authors who write fantasy. Are they asked to tame their fantasy down for a different audience to prove themselves? Is this just an evolution many writers go through? Do many writers find that the original audience they are writing for isn’t the one which speaks to them? Or something? Who knows.

      Snap judgements around YA happen all the time. I honestly expect quite a bit of contension in response to this post. I’m not telling anyone NOT to read it, but the world gets so angry whenever you make a statement about YA. There seems to be some secret war happening over this category of books. Snap judgements with books are a great thing to be peeved about. I personally don’t enjoy adult romance novels or Christian fiction, but that doesn’t mean these are valid forms of literature. Stop judging people for reading what they love!

      Thanks for stopping by and commenting, Kim! I really appreciate it.

      • Kim @ Traveling in Books February 10, 2019 at 12:10 pm

        I wonder if a lot of the current indecision about what is YA and what isn’t has to do with the fact that many new authors seem to have a fanfiction background. While I’ve read plenty of fan fiction that is adult in nature and complex in structure, the vast majority of what’s out there is simplistic and filled with tropes. But it’s an easy way for younger writers to get experience with story structure and character before diving into original content. The trouble is, not much of the feedback is critical in nature– it’s more about praise– and so the authors might find themselves instinctively writing what they think the audience likes. I think this can lead to stories that feel like YA in structure, but often have content meant for adults.

        I totally agree with you with Arrows of the Queen! It felt young and simplistic, because Talia was young and because it was Lackey’s first novel, but by the second book you could tell she was writing for an older audience. I think fantasy writers prior to about 2005 wrote for older audiences, and the publishers marketed the books to adults. Aside from books like Susan Cooper’s Dark is Rising books, Lloyd Alexander’s Chronicles of Prydain, and a couple of others, I can’t remember any fantasy books that were intended for a younger audience being around when I was a kid. You went from middle grade to adult. It’s a different ballgame now. There’s also the fact that geek culture is more accepted now, so girls and young people in general don’t feel like outcasts for reading SFF (I know I was considered a weirdo for liking Star Trek and Shakespeare).

        There is definitely a lot of contention in YA, and it often makes me less likely to read it. I can’t think of a similar conflict hanging over any adult novels. It always seems to be happening with YA, though.

        • Jackie B February 15, 2019 at 2:44 pm

          Really? I had no idea that many new authors had a fanfiction background. I, sadly, don’t do a ton of author research until after I discover if I like the author. Because of this, I don’t know a lot about currentpopular authors; I don’t make a lot of time for new releases!

          Yes! This comparison with the fanfiction world very clearly articulates my struggles with a lot of YA and New Adult literature! The writing is simplistic and immature, but covers complex and adult themes. This is a confusing place to be in as a reader.

          It’s a completely different ballgame. When I was a kid, I read The Hobbit and Song of the Lioness and then went straight to Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time. That’s a HUGE jump. But there was nothing else for me to read (at least, not that my librarians recommended). The speculative fiction space for middle-grade and young adult has exploded over the last 30 years. And I love it! Geek culture becoming mainstream has a lot to do with it — but I think the internet connecting all these quiet people with all sorts of “radical” and “geeky” ideas really brought Geek culture and more speculative ideas to the fore. Suddenly, these people were no longer alone!

          I think YA is so controversial because it has to change so often and so radically to keep up with the readership. Again, the internet. It allows information and ideas to travel faster than never. 12-18 year olds are always on the cutting edge of new ideas and philosophies. This is a hard market to keep up with! I’d love to see trends and controversy like this in adult literature. But, well, nothing is forcing adult authors to change. Yet.

          • Kim @ Traveling in Books February 15, 2019 at 9:37 pm

            I don’t know that /most/ YA writers were/are fanfic writers, but some prominent YA writers of the past 10 years have definitely been- Stephanie Meyer and Cassandra Clare are the first two that come to mind. Others may not admit to a fanfic background, but having read a lot of fanfic and a lot of YA fantasy in my time, I can definitely see the similarities.

            There was a big jump for me, too, from the middle-grade stuff like Ursula K. Le Guin’s Earthsea Trilogy, The Hobbit, and Susan Cooper’s Dark is Rising books to stuff like Stephen King and Anne Rice. There were fantasy series that felt a little like they were in between those reading levels, but when I look back at them, I realize those fantasy series were very good.

            • Jackie B February 19, 2019 at 8:57 am

              I know so many lifelong readers who jumped from middle-grade fantasy to adult fantasy. I wonder if that has something to do with keeping readers going? I know it means to lot to me that I was able to comprehend and appreciate “adult” literature when I was 12. I am certain some things went over my head, but that doesn’t change the fact that suddenly seeing the world expand to me in literature was eye-opening. Plus, fantasy introduced me to adult concepts and themes without scaring me away. It wasn’t real, right? Unlike contemporary or historical fiction, I could just ignore the stuff I wasn’t ready for. Not a mature way to deal with the content, but it helped me mature for certain.

  • Zezee February 10, 2019 at 9:25 am

    Thanks for this. It annoys me too when I hear someone say a book’s genre is YA. I’m always tempted to correct them.

    • Jackie B February 10, 2019 at 12:13 pm

      I’m glad that I’m not alone! Do you ever correct them? I do it all the time in person… but less often when I’m interacting with a blogger. I wonder why that is?

      • Zezee February 10, 2019 at 1:27 pm

        I’ve never corrected them. I only see/hear people say it’s a genre online. And it’s hard sometimes to correct someone online without them taking it the wrong way.

        • Jackie B February 12, 2019 at 11:27 pm

          Truer words haven’t been spoken in a long time. It shocks me how challenging and toxic people can be on the internet. It’s like everyone forgets there is a human being on the end of this computer.

          You’re smart to pick your battles wisely. Keep it up! I could learn a thing or two from you, Zezee.

  • Annemieke February 10, 2019 at 11:41 am

    Oh my gosh yes. The Bear and the Nightingale is adult and not YA. I didn’t realize this until Pages Unbound recently pointed that out. ACOTAR is a thing from the publisher though as they wanted to appeal to the readers of TOG, they marketed it as YA when in fact it is more a new adult.

    • Evelina @ AvalinahsBooks February 13, 2019 at 3:15 am

      The funny thing about The Bear and the Nightingale is that I also thought it was YA o.o like, it’s such a thin line… The tone is so YA-like though. I can only say that the contents are a bit grim for YA, but everything else is very YA. It’s one of those books that are borderline I guess?

      • Jackie B February 15, 2019 at 2:47 pm

        I don’t think it’s the tone that’s YA, it’s that the writing style is more simplistic like YA. This is one of the things which factors into whether something is YA or not. Is the reading level appropriate for 12-18 year olds? Yes? Well, that is only ONE factor. That’s not THE only factor. Theme and content is essential, too.

        Did you read that BookRiot article I linked above? If so, do you have thoughts? I think it more clearly addresses some of the concerns.

        • Evelina @ AvalinahsBooks February 15, 2019 at 3:50 pm

          Hmm I don’t think I read it. I am scatter-brained lately so I might have read half the comments, but not half the others xD and by tone, I don’t mean the style being simplistic. I mostly mean the somewhat snarky tone that most of these novels have. I don’t know. It’s just a vibe, hard to put your finger on it.

          • Jackie B February 18, 2019 at 1:24 pm

            Pft, don’t worry about it. I have been distracted lately, so it’s been hard for me to read and follow other blogs, let alone other comments! XD

            I think I get it — are you referring to how teenaged protagonists speak to the reader in such a book? It’s how the writing portrays the life of these characters which comes across as snarky, simplistic, or even naive.

            • Evelina @ AvalinahsBooks February 18, 2019 at 1:56 pm

              Yeah! They speak or narrate. It’s more prominent in first person books.

    • Jackie B February 14, 2019 at 3:48 pm

      I get that ACOTAR was intentionally marketed towards the audience of TOG. But I wonder why this happened with The Bear and the Nightingale… Perhaps because this book begins with Vasalisa so young? Any theories?

      • Annemieke February 15, 2019 at 6:50 am

        I think that it does have to do with age. I fall in the trap of thinking that books with characters in a certain age category are thought of more as YA than adult. I think we then forget about the themes more easily which are important too.

        • Jackie B February 18, 2019 at 11:56 am

          There also aren’t a lot of lifetime-long stories for protagonists which start from youth. I see a lot of these where an adult protagonist is reflecting on their history so we see their full life, but rarely do we see someone start young and grow fully mature in a single book. I’ve never considered this before!

  • Captain's Quarters February 10, 2019 at 1:24 pm

    I have a problem with categorizing books for teens and kids as young adult, juvenile, middle-grade, etc. When I was younger there were children’s books which were board books and picture books, adult books with your content like sex or horror, and younger readers which covered everything else. I keep those distinctions on me blog because a) I be used to them and b) I don’t like breaking books down that much. I know why publishers like it. I know why some parents feel more comfortable with it. But I am glad my mother did not try to limit what I read by the intended age group. I did read about some things like sex which went over me head at the time (late bloomer here) but I learned so much by reading whatever appealed to me. I am always perplexed by how books get cateogorized. It also makes it so hard to find books in libraries sometimes. I once was lookng for a classic and looked through fiction, YA, new adult, and middle-grade before I found it in the junviniles. Can’t remember which books now. But I thought to meself that teens would love this book but they were unlikely to pick it up when it was considered two levels below teen. Lovely post and lovely comments so far. Arrr!
    x The Captain

    • Jackie B February 11, 2019 at 1:55 pm

      I completely understand where you are coming from, Captain! I know that growing up I went straight from simple chapter books (such as Ramona Quimby, Age 8 and The Mouse and the Motorcycle) to adult books. I had no idea that a middle ground existed! This is because my local librarian recognized I had an appetite for reading and pointed me straight towards The Hobbit. I never looked back. (Though, it could be debated that The Hobbit is a younger reading-level book…)

      I don’t think that because a book is categorized for an age range/reading level or whatever means that other people shouldn’t read it. In fact, I read mostly middle-grade books at this point in my life. But I believe there is power in marketing for different age ranges. These categories make it easier for readers to locate what they want to read. It makes genres which might have otherwise been intimidating more approachable.

      What it sounds like you’re mentioning is the difficulties libraries have with these different categories. It’s super easy to find the children’s books– board books and simple chapter books and the like — as there is often a children’s section. But how does the rest of the content get shelved? This topic was recently approached by Krysta @ Pages Unbound: Should Libraries Shelve By Genre?

      Check out Krysta’s post and let me know what you think! I’m curious… You have such insightful comments, Captain! Thank you for contributing to the conversation.

      • Captain's Quarters February 18, 2019 at 11:17 am

        Oh goodness. I missed that post somehow and am off to read it. Be right back.

        Reading the post and all the comments did take me back and forth on me opinions of how things should be shelved. Personally for adult books I like having a general fiction section with the romance, crime/mystery, and SFF stuff having their own subsections. All the sections are organized by author. Those are genres were the fans tend to stay engaged in their prefered section and rarely want to read elsewhere.

        That said at one of the current libraries I visit, all of the new fiction is in one section so I have to browse all the new stuff when looking for something. I have found very good non-SFF reads that way.

        As for non-adult fiction, I can see the appeal of having books by genre and then subcategories like horse books. Man would I have loved a horse section when I was little. It does make sense in terms of helping younger readers to find books that appeal to them.

        I do think that middle-grade and juvenile and YA tags should be combined in libraries. I do understand why they might be marketed that way but really feel that it’s too much division. Children should be encouraged to read whatever captures their fancy. Books like learning-to-read and board books should be in a children’s section because those readers have to have help to read. Once that is no longer an issue, the sky be the limit.

        Thanks for a lovely comment and the link. Arrrr!
        x The Captain

    • Krysta February 11, 2019 at 11:23 pm

      My library will sometimes try to solve the problem of teens not wanting to “read down” by shelving books in multiple places. So you could find the same title in MG fiction and in YA. For some reason, I’ve noticed young readers are often very concerned with their reading level and they can get a little snobbish about how they “don’t read MG” because, you know, that’s for babies. Even though upper MG and YA tend to be written with very similar sentence structures (which are, frankly, not all that complex to begin with). At any rate, the library seems to use MG and YA labels primarily as meaning “may be of interest to this age group” and so they will shelve things like The Giver and The Hobbit in both places just so teens don’t stick up their noses at those titles by seeing them in the MG section.

      • Jackie B February 16, 2019 at 10:10 am

        Aww. It’s adorable that kids can be snobbish about their reading levels. Honestly, I was probably that way! I mean, being a snob isn’t cute, but… well, I love it when kids try to act older than they are.

        But this is great. The idea of putting books in two places. I”ve seen this happen with YA and Adult, but I’ve never noticed this with MG and YA at my library. i’m certain they’ve done it. I wonder what this means for circulation numbers, too. Does this change how common it is for kids to read these books?

        • Krysta February 18, 2019 at 12:47 pm

          Yeah, I think maybe part of growing up is just being a bit snobbish about some things until you gain enough self-confidence to stop. I was snobbish, too.

          That’s an interesting question! I wonder if anyone’s ever looked to see which copies of something is circulating more…

      • Captain's Quarters February 18, 2019 at 10:53 am

        Hmmm I have seen both the hobbit and giver in different sections now that I think about it. And I can see why kids would want to feel accomplished by reading at a higher level. I can see why libraries would adapt a “put it in all the places” approach. Lovely comment matey.
        x The Captain

    • Krysta February 11, 2019 at 11:27 pm

      I’ve been saying for ages that YA isn’t a genre! I don’t understand people who “won’t read YA” because they think it’s all the same. There’s fantasy and sci-fi and, well, ALL the genres in it! I think you could argue that YA has some features that maybe seem generic, like the age of the protagonist, the love triangle, the enemies to lovers trope. YA books are also less complex than adult books in most cases, which is reflected in both sentence structure and overall structure–but I’d say that because of the intended audience, not because it’s a genre. Sometimes I think we should just throw out labels to see if people would suddenly pick up books and enjoy them, once they can’t tell who the marketing audience was.

      • Jackie B February 16, 2019 at 10:14 am

        Yay! I’m not alone! Thank you, Krysta for reinforcing this. 🙂

        Yes, there are definitely some tropes and common themes we see in YA, but not all YA comtains or covers these tropes. There are common themes in all fantasy, science fictoin, mystery, etc. as well. Perhaps that’s how the genre label ended up appearing!

        I am with you on removing labels. But, in the end, humans instinctively sort things. If we removed these lablels, I’m certain new ones would show up. Instead, I’d remove marketing. Universally. I’m tired of commercials. XD

        • Krysta February 18, 2019 at 12:46 pm

          Yes, that’s true. People gravitate towards labels! And I’m sure, even if libraries removed them, for instance, patrons would still ask for them!

      • Captain's Quarters February 18, 2019 at 10:50 am

        I wouldn’t mind if marketing labels were just thrown out. I don’t pau much attention to them anyway. Hmmm good point about people avoiding YA because of thinking it be a genre. I hadn’t thought of that but it does make sense.
        x The Captain

        • Jackie B February 26, 2019 at 4:18 pm

          I’m with you, Captain. I mean, I’m certain marketing does something, but I never feel like anything intentionally marketed captures me. Most of my book recommendations come from friends, family, and bloggers. However, as an avid reader, I’m probably not the intended audience for most of these YA books…

  • Isabelle @ BookwyrmBites February 11, 2019 at 9:35 am

    I think the “YA” label conveys certain expectations with regards to themes (coming of age, etc) and content (probably romance, but no erotica), as well as kind of a “vibe” that might come from those two and other factors but is harder to quantify – so I can definitely see why people might think it’s a genre, especially with the way Goodreads displays the shelf-sorting like you brought up. at the same time, YA contemporary romance can be very different from YA fantasy dystopia, so I agree that it shouldn’t be considered a genre.

    as a newly-20 reader, the lack of variety in New Adult is really hitting me hard – right now the perception seems to be that NA is for romance, so books are marketed as YA/Adult if they belong to different genres, and that makes it hard to find protagonists around my age going through similar struggles. I really wish NA could be a sort of “middle ground” between YA and Adult, because I haven’t been able to really relate to the Adult books I’ve tried (SFF tends to be a little better since there’s more emphasis on the worldbuilding so I can get into the story, but there’s still a bit of distance from the characters) – and maybe in time it will be? I certainly hope so.

    • Jackie B February 15, 2019 at 3:11 pm

      I think the expectations for YA and middle-grade literature come from an expectation when these reading levels first started to appear. I mean, it wasn’t until right before this century that there were reading levels other than “childrens” and “adult”. When authors/publishers started to market to this “new” reading level (how many times can I use quotation marks?! Mwahaha!) they definitely needed criteria to ensure the right group read this content. I agree we still see these themes, and we still have these expectations, but the readership has grown so much we cannot expect this all the time.


      You just gave me another idea for a blog post! Thank you, Isabelle!

      I think New Adult is just a new readership level that it’s struggling. I don’t think the category has been marketed well and the only place it seems to be growing quickly is in romance, as you pointed out. It would help me a lot if we had some stronger criteria around what makes a book New Adult. My brain says college-age or those recently graduated are our protagonist’s ages. Coping with what it means to become an adult and letting go of childish ways seems to be common themes. Or, should. Romance doesn’t always make that need met. I think the intention of NA is to be the middle ground between YA and Adult. It just hasn’t been executed well.

      What sorts of things are you looking for in new adult books, Isabelle?

      • Isabelle @ BookwyrmBites February 15, 2019 at 4:11 pm

        hm, I hadn’t thought much about it in terms of reading level because from a pretty early age I, and a lot of my peers, was reading above grade level so “target audience” didn’t meant much to us (and I also love using scare quotes, lol ) – though there were definitely some themes and context that we weren’t quite ready for. looking forward to the blog post to come!

        I agree, NA should cover the transition between YA and Adult. protagonist age is one of the big indicators of course, and I see it as kind of the upper end of coming-of-age: not just doing things independently like YA protagonists do, but really taking responsibility and figuring out how the world works (#Adulting). being in the NA age range myself, I think there’s also a more imminent sense of pressure – so it’s no longer a question of who you’re going to be in the distant future “when you grow up,” because you’re pretty much grown up already. instead the transition from high school to college/university and working is a major concern, as well as this sense that you’re behind your classmates because you don’t have an internship or part-time job related to your major; and at the same time, you have to figure out how to feed yourself, manage your work/school/life balance, file taxes, etc. (or maybe I’m just projecting? )

        but I think a lot of the universal themes from YA still work in NA, with more nuance and ambiguity: issues of identity, personal purpose and values, systemic injustice and prejudices, ethics, interpersonal relationships, etc. it’s an interesting question!

        • Jackie B February 18, 2019 at 1:08 pm

          Did you feel prepare to tackle those themes when you jumped from children’s literature to adult literature? Do you recall how you interacted with them or if you avoided them? I’m just curious.

          Yes! I want to read books about #Adulting soooo badly. This is completely underrepresented in literature. Or people who internet date. Or get their first job and learn how to balance work and life. These are all important things I see missing from the books I pick up.

          I love that you mention the pressure of not having a job/intership in your major. There is so much uncertainty people experience as they leave college! Where are the people like me in literature who are also experiencing this? Are there other people who forget their laundry and don’t know how to do taxes?!

          This is a brilliant response, Isabelle. Thank you for sharing your perspective on NA and what it should be.

          • Isabelle @ BookwyrmBites February 19, 2019 at 4:42 pm

            you know, I don’t remember how I felt about the themes I was a pretty naive kid so a lot of it just went over my head, I think?

            and yup, there’s a whole stage of life (with all its various possibilities) missing between YA and adult lit — glad to know I’m not the only one who noticed!

            • Jackie B February 26, 2019 at 5:11 pm

              I’m sure you’re not alone in ignoring/not noticing adult themes when you read adult books as a child. I know that I certianly didn’t pick up everything Tolkien was putting down when I read The Lord of the Rings as an 11 year old. There are probably other series for which that is true as well. XD It’s nice to know that we’re exploring spaces between Children’s and Adult literature. Even if it’s not moving as quickly or a well as we want them to.

  • Evelina @ AvalinahsBooks February 13, 2019 at 3:01 am

    I never even know Goodreads applied genres like that o.o I never paid attention to this. Never even knew that sidebar existed 😀

    To me, YA is… mostly a ‘tone’. Some books written for that age group don’t seem to have that tone even. You know, like a mood, a direction. Or like, books written 20 years ago are often also not labelled as YA even though they’re intended for that group of readers. But they don’t have ‘the tone’.

    So I think a lot of people label non-YA books as YA because of the tone. At this point, it’s kind of hard to change this as well, because it IS a marketing thing, and the general publicj understands YA as a genre indeed.

    • Jackie B February 15, 2019 at 3:21 pm

      You didn’t?! I have used the Goodreads sidebar soooo many times. I like to explore what metadata tags people have selected for their books. Sometimes they are so wrong I laugh aloud. But, this is what happens when people tag books based on synopses and review reading, instead of reading the book themselves.

      I like that: YA is mostly a tone. Can you provide some criteria you think help describe this tone? How would you explain YA vs. Adult vs. Middle Grade to someone who had never heard of these things?

      • Evelina @ AvalinahsBooks February 15, 2019 at 3:57 pm

        Yes, I have never used it! I’m not even sure I was aware of it before you mentioned it xD I just don’t really care about genres all the much, I guess. Plus I love genre benders so much. The best books are always somewhere between the genres. As for the YA tone.. yeah, it’s often super urgent and angsty, problems are sharper and often our of proportion, things happen fast and explosively, and everything, and I mean everything, has a hidden dark side. The main character is often way too important and kind of full of themselves, they play a big role in things and are often either torn, or have tough decisions to make. They’re often misunderstood. If it’s written in the first person, the character is often snarky or witty. And you’re always waiting for something to happen to them, and it’s almost never anything good! That’s one of the reasons I barely read YA – this tone provokes my anxiety. Those books are just stressful to read, gah. Meanwhile, middle grades are very different. While we may have a ‘chosen one’ character, they are rarely full of themselves, and usually know they have stuff to learn. Their ego is either smaller, or put in its place. The tone of the story is usually much more hopeful and calm. There’s less urgency and less overshadowing. And most middle grades will have this all-pervading sense of “the world is fair and safe”, as opposed to YA basically saying “everything is dangerous and explosive”. Very different vibes. That’s why I adore middle grade and rarely read YA! YA stresses me out, while middle grade calms me down xD

        • Jackie B February 18, 2019 at 1:51 pm

          You are 100% correct– the best genres are always in the grey space between. Which is one of the reasons I love speculative fiction so much! The blurring between historical fiction, fantasy, science fiction, mystery, thriller, literary fiction, and contemporary is the best.

          What an articulate explaination of the tone of YA novels! Well, said indeed, Evelina! I get what you mean about YA novels making you feel more anxious. I get frustrated with the stories more often than not, as I recall being there myself once and I have learned and moved on from these concepts.

          You have a solid start to a blog post here, Evelina. I’m just sayin’… 😉

          • Evelina @ AvalinahsBooks February 18, 2019 at 1:55 pm

            Dude, I am not about to post that and make people should at me that I’m judging YA or that I’m a snob 😀 100% would happen, even though I have no such opinions.

            • Jackie B February 26, 2019 at 4:35 pm

              Hahaha. That’s fair, that’s fair… I wish it didn’t matter what we wrote on our blogs, but you’re right. The internet can be a cruel place.

  • Amanda @Cover2CoverMom February 15, 2019 at 8:26 pm

    Great post Jackie!!! The Goodreads tagging drives me absolutely bonkers! There has been so many times when people tag books based off the synopsis, and the book turns out to be something completely different.

    Do you agree that young adult is a category/readership and NOT a genre? Why or why not?

    Yes, I agree that YA is not a genre in and of itself. I always thought of Adult, New Adult, Young Adult, Middle Grade, Children’s Picture Book as “target audience.” When I list a genre, I typically include the target audience. For example, Middle Grade Fantasy, or Young Adult Contemporary… I always thought of these as sub-genres, but I guess they aren’t are they?

    Can you give some examples of misidentified young adult books? Or times when young adult was identified as a genre and it frustrated you? What about this was frustrating?

    Oh man, so many. And I Darken by Kiersten White was tagged by 1,700+ people on Goodreads as being Fantasy… it is historical fiction retelling… So many people read this book expecting fantasy, and were very disappointed, which is a shame because it is an amazing book. Another book off the top of my head is called Everealm, which I thought was YA based off the book description, cover, and tags on Goodreads, but it is very much New Adult because of the graphic sex.

    • Jackie B February 19, 2019 at 8:49 am

      I’m glad that I’m not the only one who gets frustrated by how Goodreads tags function. They are shockingly misleading more often than not.

      I like the phrase “target audience”. Perhaps I’ll add that to my book overview metadata? I think it encompasses the concept well, without bringing in jargon which confuses people or needs an explaination (such as how I use “category” above). Then I can have genre and target audience to help clarify who might be reading the book. Love it.

      Wait. People tagged And I Darken as FANTASY? How odd. I wonder why… Because of the gender-swap? I like to classify that book as historical fiction – alternate universe, because it is soooo closely based to history. Oooh, I really need to finish that series.

      I am unfamiliar with Everealm, but I get it looking at the cover/description/tags. Lately, I’ve been avoiding books which have women in ballgowns on them. They are more often than not disappointing in some way. Sometimes, it’s the miscatagorization like you ran into. Othertimes it’s just poor writing or plot or characters. But, well, I avoid them now. Too many bad experiences, I guess.

  • Gayathri Lakshminarayanan February 22, 2019 at 11:45 am

    I totally agree with your points. I was classifying them as a category until a short while ago, because it was easier to do so. But when I redid my blog, I corrected the mistake. And Goodreads bungles up a lot of things and this is just one of them.

    • Jackie B February 26, 2019 at 5:55 pm

      Your blog! Can you provide me a link to it? I feel so bad that I haven’t visited you yet, but your WP comment profile doesn’t connect me to it. 🙁

      I understand why you might want to sort by category — I recently added it to my own stats, but it does muddle things a bit. I look forward to checking out how you organize all your blog posts. 🙂

      • Gayathri Lakshminarayanan February 27, 2019 at 12:44 am

        I didn’t realize the WP link was not working. Thanks for letting me know. And I blog at Elgee Writes.

        • Jackie B March 1, 2019 at 5:11 pm

          ! It’s working now. I don’t know what you did, but awesome! Thanks for helping connect me. 🙂

  • Nicole @ Feed Your Fiction Addiction February 24, 2019 at 2:47 pm

    I definitely agree with you. I think a lot of the confusion has simply come from the fact that there is no “Category” delineation in places like Goodreads, so it gets lumped in with genre. Even on my blog, I’ll typically list the “Genre” as something like “Young Adult, Fantasy” just because that’s the only way to list it with Ultimate Book Blogger (which is the tool I use). But when I track my book for the year in a spreadsheet, I list Genre and Age-Range (YA, MG, Adult, etc.) separately.

    • Jackie B February 26, 2019 at 6:08 pm

      I’ve recently started to list “Target Audience” as a piece of metadata on my book reviews for the same reason. Target audience doesn’t feel quite as correct as category, but category requires this whole post to explain what I mean. XD So, target audience it is.

      I’ve never heard of Ultimate Book Blogger — is this a plugin of some kind?

      Thank you so much for stopping by and commenting on my post Nicole! I really appreciate it. 🙂

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